Turkey shot down a Russian SU-24 after it violated its airspace, upon which Syrian rebel Turkmen downed a rescue helicopter and killed a pilot. Erdogan has defended the decision, but expressed his regret. It's still the question why a country that violates Greek airspace at the rate of 40 times a day, would be so trigger happy.
UPDATE: Even under normal conditions politicians and diplomats will say anything that suits them. But to postmodernists words simply have no fixed meaning. That means we must see what they do. Not what they say. Russia is seriously bombing the hell out of an IS/Turkish oil tanker convoy. France hits 4 terrorist targets after it gets "really angry" when 130 of its citizens are slaughtered. The Brits primary concern is whether bombing thugs is "legal". And Obama is so afraid that hitting terrorists breeds more terrorists, he nixes seventy five percent off the target list, avoids hitting the oil industry out of environmental concerns and when he hits a convoy, he's dropping leaflets so no one gets hurt. In the meantime the borders are wide open to Muslim 'refugees', among them war criminals and terrorists. Now what does that tell us? What explanation is consistent with these facts? Why did the Russians destroy the IS oil convoy where others hesitated?
We know the two great Islamic traditions are vying for hegemony of the Middle East. The Sunni camp is led by the Gulf Arabs. It's allies in very broad terms are the US, the EU, Israel and the rest of the West. On the other side there are the Shias led by Iran, and their allies/proxies Assad, Hezbollah, Russia, China and a divided Iraq. Many Iraqi Ba'athists and Saddamists have joined Islamic State. The others are in the Mahdi Army. Islamic State are the Sunni shock troops. The Sultan of Turkey is playing a game of his own. The Russians destroying IS/Turkish oil convoy is perfectly consistent with this narrative. And the Kurds, they just want to be free and live in peace. That is also true for the Christians under their protection. But the West isn't interested in their fate.
Morally the West should not give a damn for either of these camps. With the exception of the Kurds and the innocent Christians, all are the equally evil. IS however is so toxic, that it can't be contained in a single territorial enclave. The task at hand is how we are going to deal with it, without assisting the other parties in this immoral war. The world will win nothing by destroying IS if this means raising an army of Shia thugs or Turkish orcs to take its place. Looks like we got ourselves a classic conundrum. Perhaps we should look at Alexander for tips how to untie the Gordian Knot.
Nov. 28, 2015
The matter of the spat between Turkey and Russia could well be explained from a view of revenge for the Russians bombing a convoy of tanker trucks last week, loaded with oil from IS held territory. Some of those trucks may well have belonged to Erdogan's son in law (source), who is presently Turkey's minister of Energy. (RT has the story) But let's have a look at the bigger picture.
Ankara uses, finances, and weaponizes a basket case of extremist outfits across northern Syria, and needs by all means to keep supply line corridors from southern Turkey open for them; after all they need to conquer Aleppo, which would open the way for Ankara’s Holy Grail: regime change in Damascus.
At the same time Ankara is terrified of the YPG – the Syrian Kurd People’s Protection Units – a sister organization of the leftist PKK. These must be contained at all costs. So the Islamic State group – against which the United Nations has declared war - is a mere detail in the overall Ankara strategy, which is essentially to fight, contain or even bomb Kurds; support all manner of Takfiris and Salafi-jihadis, including the Islamic State group; and get regime change in Damascus.
(...) the Syrian Kurds are attempting – and to Ankara’s alarm, somewhat supported by the U.S. - is to link what are for the moment three patches of Kurdish land in northern Syria. (...) To get to the third patch of land, they need to get to Afryn. Yet on the way (in blue) there is a collection of Turkmen villages north of Aleppo.
The strategic importance of these Turkmen lands cannot be emphasized enough. It’s exactly in this area, reaching as much as 35 km inland, that Ankara wants to install its so-called “safe zone,” which will be in fact a no-fly zone, in Syrian territory, ostensibly to house Syrian refugees, and with everything paid by the EU, which has already unblocked 3 billion euros, starting Jan. 1, via the European Commission (EC). The now insurmountable obstacle for Turkey to get its no-fly zone is, predictably, Russia.
For Russia, there’s no distinction, especially because a gaggle of Chechens, Uzbeks and Uyghurs (Chinese intel is on it) have sought harbor among these “moderates.” For Russia what matters is to smash any possibility of a future 900 km-long Jihad Highway between Aleppo and Grozny. And that explains the Russian bombing of northern Latakia province.
Ankara, predictably, went ballistic. The Foreign Ministry had even threatened Russia only a few days ago; the “Russian side’s actions were not a fight against terror, but they bombed civilian Turkmen villages and this could lead to serious consequences.” Ankara directly supports Turkmen militias with humanitarian aid but what really counts are weapons; truck deliveries controlled by the MIT – Turkish intelligence. (...)
For Russia, the area known as Turkmen Mountain, or heights – which Turks call Bayirbucak - north of Latakia province, is a major target. Because that’s where we find the Weapon Highway – through which Ankara, side by side with the CIA, weaponizes these militias.
For Russia, any possibility of militias allied with Salafis and Salafi-jihadis trying to make a push to conquer overwhelmingly Alawite Latakia province is a red line because this would threaten Russia’s airbase at Khmeimim and eventually even the port of Tartus.
So essentially we have CIA weaponizing – those famous TOW anti-tank missiles - using a smuggling route through Turkmen territory which happens to be an al-Qaeda in Syria-run Ankara power base. This is prime territory for U.S., Turkey and Saudi Arabia to undermine Damascus, and most of all prime proxy war territory: NATO (U.S.-Turkey) against Russia.
Elsewhere, Russia has plenty of other options – as in further weaponizing the YPG; that would allow them to finally take over the stretch of the border between Afryn and Jarablus that is still controlled by the Islamic State group. Ankara will be apoplectic if Syrian Kurds unite their so far unconnected territory in what they call Rojava.
The bottom line is that Turkey and Russia simply cannot be part of the same coalition fighting the Islamic State group because their objectives are diametrically opposed. (...) The grandstanding won't last long because Russia will react in a cold, calculated, swift, multi-pronged and unexpected way to the downing of the Su-24.
The Russian missile cruiser Moskva – crammed with air defense systems – is now covering the whole region. Two S-400 systems will cover all of northwest Syria and the southern Turkish border. Russia is able to electronically jam the whole of southern Turkey. There’s no way Erdogan will have his EU-paid “safe zone” inside Syria unless he goes to war against Russia.
What’s certain is that Russia’s number one priority from now on is to smash Turkey’s extremist strategy in northern Syria for good. (Source)
Nov 25, 2015
Turkey has downed a Russian SU-24 after it "violated its airspace". That is Turkey's view. Erdogan is delighted. As far as can be established FSA related Syrian Turkman "moderate" rebels shot one of the pilots and downed a Russian rescue helicopter.
UPDATE: Russia’s military contacts with Turkey will be terminated, the Russian military announced Wednesday. Whereas NATO is a military organization, not a political institute, it has always operated under the Western value of defending Liberty. The current state of affairs is making clear that evil politicians are able to hijack the organization for their own goals. It's time for some serious introspection. A good start would be to #ExpelTurkeyFromNATO
Nov. 24, 2015
There are some contradictions over the fate of the pilots. Turkey says they are alive; the regime is negotiating their release. But local Turkmen say the pilots were killed. In a letter to the UN Turkey states there were actually two fighters of unknown nationality, one reacted to warnings and disappeared from Turkish airspace, while the other was "fired at".
The REAL Reason Why #Turkey Shot Down #Russian Fighter Jet! WHAT THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO... https://t.co/cH1hGm04pr pic.twitter.com/anAqXkhW45
— Terrorism Updates (@terrorism_info) November 29, 2015
UPDATE: Even under normal conditions politicians and diplomats will say anything that suits them. But to postmodernists words simply have no fixed meaning. That means we must see what they do. Not what they say. Russia is seriously bombing the hell out of an IS/Turkish oil tanker convoy. France hits 4 terrorist targets after it gets "really angry" when 130 of its citizens are slaughtered. The Brits primary concern is whether bombing thugs is "legal". And Obama is so afraid that hitting terrorists breeds more terrorists, he nixes seventy five percent off the target list, avoids hitting the oil industry out of environmental concerns and when he hits a convoy, he's dropping leaflets so no one gets hurt. In the meantime the borders are wide open to Muslim 'refugees', among them war criminals and terrorists. Now what does that tell us? What explanation is consistent with these facts? Why did the Russians destroy the IS oil convoy where others hesitated?
We know the two great Islamic traditions are vying for hegemony of the Middle East. The Sunni camp is led by the Gulf Arabs. It's allies in very broad terms are the US, the EU, Israel and the rest of the West. On the other side there are the Shias led by Iran, and their allies/proxies Assad, Hezbollah, Russia, China and a divided Iraq. Many Iraqi Ba'athists and Saddamists have joined Islamic State. The others are in the Mahdi Army. Islamic State are the Sunni shock troops. The Sultan of Turkey is playing a game of his own. The Russians destroying IS/Turkish oil convoy is perfectly consistent with this narrative. And the Kurds, they just want to be free and live in peace. That is also true for the Christians under their protection. But the West isn't interested in their fate.
Morally the West should not give a damn for either of these camps. With the exception of the Kurds and the innocent Christians, all are the equally evil. IS however is so toxic, that it can't be contained in a single territorial enclave. The task at hand is how we are going to deal with it, without assisting the other parties in this immoral war. The world will win nothing by destroying IS if this means raising an army of Shia thugs or Turkish orcs to take its place. Looks like we got ourselves a classic conundrum. Perhaps we should look at Alexander for tips how to untie the Gordian Knot.
Nov. 28, 2015
THE BIGGER PICTURE
The Anti-ISIS Coalition. pic.twitter.com/njmFr45VCP
— The Greek Analyst (@GreekAnalyst) November 28, 2015
The matter of the spat between Turkey and Russia could well be explained from a view of revenge for the Russians bombing a convoy of tanker trucks last week, loaded with oil from IS held territory. Some of those trucks may well have belonged to Erdogan's son in law (source), who is presently Turkey's minister of Energy. (RT has the story) But let's have a look at the bigger picture.
Ankara uses, finances, and weaponizes a basket case of extremist outfits across northern Syria, and needs by all means to keep supply line corridors from southern Turkey open for them; after all they need to conquer Aleppo, which would open the way for Ankara’s Holy Grail: regime change in Damascus.
At the same time Ankara is terrified of the YPG – the Syrian Kurd People’s Protection Units – a sister organization of the leftist PKK. These must be contained at all costs. So the Islamic State group – against which the United Nations has declared war - is a mere detail in the overall Ankara strategy, which is essentially to fight, contain or even bomb Kurds; support all manner of Takfiris and Salafi-jihadis, including the Islamic State group; and get regime change in Damascus.
(...) the Syrian Kurds are attempting – and to Ankara’s alarm, somewhat supported by the U.S. - is to link what are for the moment three patches of Kurdish land in northern Syria. (...) To get to the third patch of land, they need to get to Afryn. Yet on the way (in blue) there is a collection of Turkmen villages north of Aleppo.
The strategic importance of these Turkmen lands cannot be emphasized enough. It’s exactly in this area, reaching as much as 35 km inland, that Ankara wants to install its so-called “safe zone,” which will be in fact a no-fly zone, in Syrian territory, ostensibly to house Syrian refugees, and with everything paid by the EU, which has already unblocked 3 billion euros, starting Jan. 1, via the European Commission (EC). The now insurmountable obstacle for Turkey to get its no-fly zone is, predictably, Russia.
For Russia, there’s no distinction, especially because a gaggle of Chechens, Uzbeks and Uyghurs (Chinese intel is on it) have sought harbor among these “moderates.” For Russia what matters is to smash any possibility of a future 900 km-long Jihad Highway between Aleppo and Grozny. And that explains the Russian bombing of northern Latakia province.
Ankara, predictably, went ballistic. The Foreign Ministry had even threatened Russia only a few days ago; the “Russian side’s actions were not a fight against terror, but they bombed civilian Turkmen villages and this could lead to serious consequences.” Ankara directly supports Turkmen militias with humanitarian aid but what really counts are weapons; truck deliveries controlled by the MIT – Turkish intelligence. (...)
For Russia, the area known as Turkmen Mountain, or heights – which Turks call Bayirbucak - north of Latakia province, is a major target. Because that’s where we find the Weapon Highway – through which Ankara, side by side with the CIA, weaponizes these militias.
For Russia, any possibility of militias allied with Salafis and Salafi-jihadis trying to make a push to conquer overwhelmingly Alawite Latakia province is a red line because this would threaten Russia’s airbase at Khmeimim and eventually even the port of Tartus.
So essentially we have CIA weaponizing – those famous TOW anti-tank missiles - using a smuggling route through Turkmen territory which happens to be an al-Qaeda in Syria-run Ankara power base. This is prime territory for U.S., Turkey and Saudi Arabia to undermine Damascus, and most of all prime proxy war territory: NATO (U.S.-Turkey) against Russia.
Elsewhere, Russia has plenty of other options – as in further weaponizing the YPG; that would allow them to finally take over the stretch of the border between Afryn and Jarablus that is still controlled by the Islamic State group. Ankara will be apoplectic if Syrian Kurds unite their so far unconnected territory in what they call Rojava.
The bottom line is that Turkey and Russia simply cannot be part of the same coalition fighting the Islamic State group because their objectives are diametrically opposed. (...) The grandstanding won't last long because Russia will react in a cold, calculated, swift, multi-pronged and unexpected way to the downing of the Su-24.
The Russian missile cruiser Moskva – crammed with air defense systems – is now covering the whole region. Two S-400 systems will cover all of northwest Syria and the southern Turkish border. Russia is able to electronically jam the whole of southern Turkey. There’s no way Erdogan will have his EU-paid “safe zone” inside Syria unless he goes to war against Russia.
What’s certain is that Russia’s number one priority from now on is to smash Turkey’s extremist strategy in northern Syria for good. (Source)
No one talks about how a pissed #Turkey can fuck with #Russia internally via angry turkic nations, starting with Tatars in #Kazan...
— mel huang (@mel_huang) November 28, 2015
So it turns out that the "Syrian" rebel leader who killed the Russian pilot is a Turkish ultranationalist. https://t.co/1Z7wuZicYT
— Jo (@jo_bouk) November 28, 2015
2 Turkish journalists have been jailed for reporting that Turkey was smuggling arms to Syrian rebels - https://t.co/ctA20DedKn
— Paul Joseph Watson (@PrisonPlanet) November 27, 2015
EU to give fresh impetus next month to Turkey's membership bid https://t.co/RnbroHqzLm via @BBCNews
— Richard Wellings (@RichardWellings) November 26, 2015
Nov 25, 2015
RUSSIA SEVERS MILITARY TIES WITH TURKEY
#YPG #Su24
"#Turkey fosters the #IS." has been said before but most didn't believe. Now #Putin speaks out himself. pic.twitter.com/xXBoLdo91n
— 我是庫爾德人JPY_Kurdish (@JPY_Kurdish) November 25, 2015
UPDATE: Russia’s military contacts with Turkey will be terminated, the Russian military announced Wednesday. Whereas NATO is a military organization, not a political institute, it has always operated under the Western value of defending Liberty. The current state of affairs is making clear that evil politicians are able to hijack the organization for their own goals. It's time for some serious introspection. A good start would be to #ExpelTurkeyFromNATO
NATO Is Harboring ISIS, And Here's The Evidence. (Source)
In a statement posted on the official website of Russian Defense Ministry, the chief of the Main Operational Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, Lt.Gen. Sergei Rudskoy, said: “Contacts with Turkey will be terminated at the military level”. (...) The Russian Defense Ministry warned that all potentially dangerous targets will be destroyed. A Russian warplane was shot down at the Turkish-Syrian border earlier Tuesday after repeatedly ignoring warnings that it was violating Turkish airspace. On Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said: “This tragic event will bear serious consequences for Turkish-Russian relations.” Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov cancelled his scheduled visit to Turkey in the wake of the shooting down of the Russian warplane.
#BREAKING: The 2nd pilot who ejected from #Su24 was found by #SAA and brought back to the Russian airbase safely. https://t.co/3jxnXwoUcM
— Russia Direct (@Russia_Direct) November 25, 2015
#Russia promised 2hunt down any oil truck leaving #ISIS land2 #Turkey. #Russia said it hs destroyed 1000 oil tanker pic.twitter.com/vGoqdZhpuN
— Elijah J. Magnier (@EjmAlrai) November 26, 2015
Turkey enters the war on the side of ISIL, says VP of Italian Senate https://t.co/g5kyP9bI4Y pic.twitter.com/Ho30bucNJH
— Karl E (@therussophile) November 24, 2015
Sound quality sucks, but who wouldn't want to listen to @aaronstein1 talk about today's downing of #RussianJet https://t.co/NlAmjvxvCI
— Howard Eissenstat (@heissenstat) November 25, 2015
Nov. 24, 2015
RUSSIA: TURKISH F-16 WAS IN SYRIAN AIR SPACE
"Turkish F-16 violated Syrian air-space when downing Russian Su-24" Russian general staff https://t.co/ofXoCgmAgU pic.twitter.com/SmHRobQbZj
— Olivier Fehr (@OliFehr) November 24, 2015
The Russians have now found out that the Turkish F-16 was in Syrian air space when it shot down the Russian SU-24. From here onwards speculation will become useless. Both parties are fabulous propagandists. The Russians are going to accompany their bombers from now on with fighters. One wonders why the Turks are making such a to do about violating their air space: case of pot calling the kettle black.
CONFIRMED: Russian Mi-8 helicopter hit by shelling in #Syria during search & rescue op, 1 marine killed - MoD https://t.co/sODf4Bo99D
— RT (@RT_com) November 24, 2015
Russian Fighter Jets Will Accompany Bomber Aircraft Targeting Jihadists in Syria https://t.co/SBuED7WgP8 pic.twitter.com/Xobexmerkq
— Trending ISIS News (@ISISolizer) November 24, 2015
Classified US cable: Turkey violating Greek airspace 40 times a day https://t.co/iboxOyFJIw pic.twitter.com/YKFmyJZkSf
— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) November 24, 2015
FATE OF RUSSIAN AIRMEN DISPUTED
18+|#Syria|n rebels (#FSA) released a video that shows the body of the killed #Russia|n pilot. pic.twitter.com/rjpS8B6rz0
— Sakir Khader (@sakirkhader) November 24, 2015
There are some contradictions over the fate of the pilots. Turkey says they are alive; the regime is negotiating their release. But local Turkmen say the pilots were killed. In a letter to the UN Turkey states there were actually two fighters of unknown nationality, one reacted to warnings and disappeared from Turkish airspace, while the other was "fired at".
#Turkey's letter to the UN Security Council following Russian jet incident - published by @wikileaks pic.twitter.com/vBPt1ePnFq
— Julie Lenarz (@MsJulieLenarz) November 24, 2015
STOLTENBERG SAYS NATO STANDS IN SOLIDARITY WITH TURKEY
— zerohedge (@zerohedge) November 24, 2015
Obama: "Turkey has a right to defend itself" but insists he's keen not to escalate tension https://t.co/4SRDXaHoJY
— LBC (@LBC) November 24, 2015
Now Turkey says both Russian pilots are alive. Ankara seeking to secure their release - https://t.co/9GwkN9Kf7Q
— Jack Stubbs (@jc_stubbs) November 24, 2015
Turkey warned the Russian plane 10 times - Lavrov: 'We thought they'd be like EU & US, wouldn't really do anything' pic.twitter.com/o7W0xZeJh1
— Sputnik (@Sputnik_Intl) November 24, 2015
FSA REBELS SHOOT DOWN RUSSIAN RESCUE HELICOPTER
Syrian Rebel footage of capture of Russian pilot.
FSA REBELS HAVE SHOT DOWN A RUSSIAN RESCUE HELICOPTER THAT WAS SENT TO PICK UP THE DOWNED PILOT. TURKEY, FSA AND ISIS WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO INVOLVE NATO IN A WAR AGAINST RUSSIA, ASSAD AND IRAN. NATO HAS CALLED AN EMERGENCY MEETING.
FSA's 1st Coastal Division destroy [Russian?] helicopter sent to rescue Russian pilots in Latakia w. TOW missile: pic.twitter.com/Z4luqvDiAD
— Aslam Bin Wohab (@mmaslam1826) November 24, 2015
Pro-JAN tweep on Su-24 downing. #Syria pic.twitter.com/QNTgOxBgCA
— Yannis Koutsomitis (@YanniKouts) November 24, 2015
TURKEY DOWNS RUSSIAN FIGHTER
Moment of fighter #jet goes down in flames near #Turkey-#Syria border
#Russianplane
https://t.co/hERMbdLJ9n pic.twitter.com/wMC75EPhAT
— Yeni Şafak English (@yenisafakEN) November 24, 2015
Decision to shoot down Russian warplane was made personally by the Turkish prime minister: Sabah https://t.co/I3IPSTPmFu
— Yaroslav Trofimov (@yarotrof) November 24, 2015
Breaking:
President Putin calls his national security council to emergency meeting over Russian jet shot down by 2 Turkish F16 fighter jets
— Suna Vidinli® (@SunaVidinli) November 24, 2015
UPDATE One of the Russian pilots is reported killed by the Syrian opposition /@zaidbenjamin https://t.co/vgnhXpbhOt
— AirLive.net (@airlivenet) November 24, 2015
Pro-government Turkish newspaper is really expressing joy over shooting down the Russian jet !!
@KassandraTroy pic.twitter.com/rshOgoowYz
— Tanin Kendal (@TaninKendal) November 24, 2015
Meanwhile Lavrov just cancelled his scheduled trip to Turkey on Wednesday. https://t.co/SdugxNqGKn
— ColorMeRed (@ColorMeRed) November 24, 2015
NATO just confirmed urgent consultation with #Turkey government after #Turkish army shot down #Russia|n aircraft earlier today
— ✡SamuelCardillo✡ (@cyberwarfighte1) November 24, 2015
UNCONFIRMED: One of the #Russia pilots is reported killed by the Syrian opposition pic.twitter.com/MGGo2MWnVr - @zaidbenjamin
— Al Boe (@AlBoeNEWS) November 24, 2015
Turkish official: "This isn't an action against any specific country: Our F-16s took necessary steps to defend Turkey's sovereign territory"
— Kareem Shaheen (@kshaheen) November 24, 2015
In this dangerous moment after downing of Russian jet, all should remain cool headed and calm
— Donald Tusk (@eucopresident) November 24, 2015
Interesting. Pentagon officials say downing of Su-24 "incident between Russian and Turkish govts." Turkey has some convincing to do at NATO.
— Mark MacKinnon (@markmackinnon) November 24, 2015
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